Aug 4, 2016|
Anne R. Pierce, author, scholar & commentator in the areas of American presidents, American foreign policy & American society talks to L.A. Tarone about the Iran getting a cash payment and the U.S. relationship with Russia
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Automatically Generated Transcript (may not be 100% accurate)
And our appear Ers. There's been an amazing and really do because you may have seen it as a byline. In a USA today in The Washington Times a world in journal or any other place is she's appointed member of the Princeton University. James Madison society also off political science series editor for transaction publication she's written three books. The latest of which is called a perilous path we'll get to bat in a few minutes but first a ball. We say good evening and welcome to and our peers I appreciate you being her best and I thank you very much. So thank you for having me. Start was a topic that has Zahn consume a great deal of time on this program so far tonight. And out last night as well since the Wall Street Journal broke the initial story this 400 million dollar cash payment to Iran. I understand that it is to settle a debt having to do with fighter jets dead dates back to 1976. And everything else but. I look at this into me. Again this is Iran the world's foremost sponsor her and bank role of terrorism. So just seems awfully wrong about this am I off base. Array then the American people learn it says means it looks like grandsons and whether it is tram somewhere or not. When you have talked untraceable. Cash happening to be shut teller ran 400 million dollars whereas. At the time when the hostages are released. And has not looked at it and it. Didn't think. The whole approach to the Iran nuclear deal. Arab. Not only way to deal itself. Bad week the way way too much and received every term way too little but then who are obviously not ideal but we're secretive. But the secret that environment helps kids concerned yes. Shipping costs about cash terror ran the flipped out and secret con does not informed. Conrad has already been noted stonewalled when they tried to canned answers from the administration about these areas side deals which it. A way even more than that deal that we know about how I agree that you and I agree with the fact that Iran cannot use that cash to fund terror. There yeah Hezbollah I'm not Ukrainian guy hurt. And she also had brutal aside regime. And an in it is cash you can't Trace it silent he can get a fistful canceled checks or money orders is something. It's cashed as a way to Trace it. That's ever made and they are the world number one and state sponsored terror. One has indeed points I made again and again in my book apparel attack they've had yeah we need to beat. That like raise her on the threat from terrorist and case that's now in particular. That we also need to be focused try to raise their. And that. And sent. Terrorist sponsoring. A hostile regimes. Area Russia Iran North Korea. And when we need to have this. Farm policy of protesters on the line. Panasonic then and hasn't even focused on the track coming from these regimes and the basic it's absurd policy because after all the regimes are the ones that happen. The first established that they could start Obama. And if you have WMV. Or are working really hard on getting the WMD and and this symptomatic as an entire farm policy that's upside down. I I got into dissing crashed and from a caller maybe half and our gone I actually hadn't thought of this analogy but when I did think about it I said no this isn't this sort of works. Is there anything similar. Between this deal the one point seven billion dollars. Which the Obama administration agreed to pay Iran to settle that 1976. Around me canceled order is a way all planet and the 400 million dollars that's part of a deal now. Is this at all similar. To be all over north Koran quote spanned all. I'm 1981. Or 82 men involved. A third country in the shipment of arms to the Contras in Nicaragua. Well hi all I can say is that the concerns about that where they illegality. That it was unseemly. For the United States government should be operating that way. And and Charles Krauthammer that then. Bless and I paid. The word for it ask when you take a bunch of cash. You have it transferred it he and senior. That's better and then you deliver and then things seemed to happen in return the money wander. Okay that's their term because I heard somebody else describe this on another I think is on NPR this morning. What I heard another another foreign policy Israel like yourself look at this and say boy there's something radically wrong with this this looks an awful lot like money wandering. Well it certainly does hand. It's unfortunate. That. We have. All these. This state. Continuing on even though the mistakes traumatizing. Countries like Iran. Area North Korea Russia are staring at trade in this case yeah you would think that. We've played at least at this point learn from adolescence it's interesting to think about all the trouble making. Ram 1 this morning around the world at the very time that we were shipping cash aside from the hostages but another point on the hostages six and certain other people. Have discussed during your salad that's not 10% of for Iran to take more time. Absolutely think. Absolutely. Hello. And it at. The Dalai I don't think there's any doubt about it he gave you can now a squeeze 400 million dollars out of Christmas for hostages how many more you get have been sent to senate term there's still holding eleven. All of our people as well they've done that initially the Obama administration had demanded they be released in many drop demands for its. I am not clear on the number I know at the table recently taken care more and I've actually seen different numbers which is scary in itself. It certainly wouldn't want American citizens. Well documented and taking care I had not heard that number though I have not heard numbers that date I gave no bad. Debris coming out so taken lunch from the UK may have. I think France. Did this event of the track and. And. Wind we look at the way things are in the Middle East right now. V 78 well 89 years ago in the Middle East was relatively stable and certainly wasn't peaceful. But it was relatively stable it seems to me. That I think really starting with Hillary Clinton's Arab Spring. That toppled Hosni Mubarak in Egypt and king of Tunisia whose name escapes me at the moment. That with the fire started there are and it's kind of spread region why am I way off base here. Well I don't blame the Arab Spring and that counts for anything I need to blame Obama Clinton carried foreign policies. Which were based on rejecting our best foreign policy traditions which have sides peace treaty strengthens human rights. They downgraded our defense has power they emphasized American ideals. Reached out of the world's worst dictators he just spent pro democracy groups actually end and actually. The pinstriped relationships with our best allies then went pro democracy groups about treating our enemies on potential enemies. Generous place for example you talk about. Egypt. But do I actually do an in depth article on Egypt. And plus I just got hurt and some are surprised and I didn't want to discover that because I do not want to be in the category of a conspiracy terrorist. But knees. Main component. But I'd Clinton's foreign policy. Toward Asia both before during and after the Arab and Arab Spring more than outreach to the Muslim Brotherhood. There and then try to pressure Mubarak for reform because there was briefly update momentum against him. And then router trying. Do what I saw until that that's part of that rebellion and there were a lot of good part. Need you not know believe. You may enabling comments about the mother load on Friday heard before or Morrissey was never elected. And that's okay enabling action and so I'd have to say. I was just shocked and out. When you look at the world in 2008 when he had. Except power when Obama took power in the world was by all accounts on a trajectory toward more political freedom and and the world's worst human rights violators were actually under the spotlight and under pressure I'd like to think about someone. Any presidents from Truman and I've been parity Kennedy and Reagan would have done with that opportunity. I had to get that. Yeah sure. Islamists groups that they were not any tendency at that time so why wouldn't you reached out to the wanton. And do everything you can't stop says the Islamist movement's. Key extremist movements before they got out of control. Well bent down the Muslim Brotherhood only mentioned out like to parade itself as sort of a moderate group and of course once they took power once more at Morrissey was told unquote elected. And I have questions about the conduction of the election and all act. I mean I hate in Egypt then all of a sudden he in the Muslim Brotherhood won about change in trend trying to change the constitution. To DP in the Muslim Brotherhood in power in perpetuity. The end of elections and things like that so he can use the election is so make himself a dictator of pro life and seems to me. Yes yes so there was actually entrusting when he asserted that a marriage of convenience between the Muslim Brotherhood. And he Egyptian. Military. Because the military was also very threatened by the reform and just says moral the moral principled stance on the part of the free world. Would have been much better than reaching out to the Muslim brother Patrick. Down for us cross across the Mediterranean Sea NS I Turkey. I Turkey right now is is amassed. Heard a bond is still in power he started router or. Reparations. Against those who were involved in the co we don't pay that much attention to the meanest country about oh bull I observe and reparations. Often those involved in the Coke a couple of things related to this how big of a problem for this is NATO saying is how term he's been a member of NATO since nineteen. 52 herself. And is he earned one government. Leaning more and more toward becoming the guy in this probably isn't the best term to use Manning and use it anyway at quote unquote Islamic republic. And not to secular republic that Turkey was when. In it was an ally of ours is Turkey a problem. He has some and I think it's a big problem on a big problem for NATO because Turkey was an essential ally. Not perfect by any means that one of our bed Arab allies in the Middle East and has cracked down on the airline has been extreme. And of course we're ready to emphasize respect fruit of the role of blob. And contrasting the tank. How different things are also might have been if we it has different policy. It's important to remember that by the end of Bush's second term. Can't actually embraced some market and political reforms I think we increasingly cooperate or put Pakistan's strategic matters yeah. And as prime minister and then president. Carolina was in favor of Turkey being part of eighty years old. And what moderate compared to most Middle Eastern leaders that hate and clearly had authority area and the fire sent Islamist. He's bad. Who I believe that our get mistaken what really pressed Turkey are ready and was that we did not. Adopt any. Promising humanitarian very strategic purpose proposal then there were many albums circulating. To put any pressure on the brutal horrific Arafat regime and Turkey was more afraid of aside than anything else. They tried to play it both ways they have tried to explain you know indirectly egos aside and eight cents. And those places groomed oh and as he does side kept being try to lifeline by the UN and the US sunrise side. Turkey started to look the other way as I hate this would stream across its borders. And the back and forth from Turkey to Syria making trouble. In Syria and I mean I can't help wondering how different things might be and Turkey now if we get paid and a strong position. And are not allowed as possible vacuum can develop. Then area. And their. A ball mark cannot see that I think led to the big expansion of big growth of bomb ice is an error. I wish it and it didn't contracting because. One thing that the left really criticize. Didn't. The Iraq War. Aside from criticizing obviously the fact that we went there in the first place with that we didn't adequately. Prepare for post what they call. Postwar stability operations you know we get we didn't have our ducks in a row. And as big and whom. Of course the sheet problem list we created because of that. Opposition to the Iraq War when Obama precipitously. Removed all of our troops and announced to the world that I was bit we were done with Iraq they were never going to remember putting them one of our troops from the photo again. So you would think you have learned and when our brand filled that vacuum in Iraq. And play and the last himself criticized the lack of stability operations in Iraq is leading to chaos. When we went into the gap that we were going to go ahead. We will should they had some sort of stability operations as some Serb superb season. Ted that's. For and I do that makes say they couldn't the military effort worthwhile. And patent that would wish is that nothing was done and there's chaos and licenses to. I think stronghold in Libya. Yeah obviously there is no planning at all because there was a complete vacuum it was complete chaos fairness not much better now and I was what three years ago 34 years ago that I cut off he was so overthrown and that vacuum is just ground. We changed gears to NATO. Donald Trump has taken a great deal with criticism. By. I'll foreign policy experts I suppose you can call me one and a half odd. And you know you actually are one I just like to play one on the radio once and a while. But if he's got a great deal with criticism for saying that may know is bad and an outdated organization and and that the charter needs to be re done. Members need disbanded 2% or pasted 2% of their GDP if they contract to do following back in 1949 when NATO was sacked created. And that it needs a new mission. How much of that criticism. If any is justified. And I actually eat good green with the criticism. I think Russia. Is. On the move. Quit there are incredibly. Efficient propaganda machine that's what they're divide and conquer tactics. In Europe they're threatening the politics and there are certain people really on the inside and their evens. Trying. To threaten NATO itself. And didn't. I don't think it's the right time to be in any way backing down from NATO in fact I think NATO is one of the good things we have going further. For a trade now in this world tennis. So precarious and so travel anywhere. Chuck Hagel himself sent the world is exploding however well we really need our allies we need to bolster com. Hello I'm. I need to build. A green way and you can't take any issue with you know at this particular juncture. And how likely is sympathetic comments about dictators and I kind of that's very concerning. Having that. If we wait watch Hillary Clinton's record for the sake of taking a principled stance against Tom's cabin itself as unprincipled. Similar we have to do what I can still in my book a perilous past is emphasized the importance has. Looking at history. Learning historical lessons from my little world working in the Cold War seeing what works seeing what doesn't I I think. All Americans now what you actually need to start. Getting contrasted and reading about foreign policy because. We do have this. World where. Everyone has offensive during an entry could create some I'm afraid. Rallying getting anybody just in uniform policy by wanna kill follows one might all I have to do is start talking about foreign policy the phones. I did happen Collins I. Sammy another begins in the it is interesting you just mentioned the baltics. Let's say Estonia. Russia makes a move on Estonia and I was not aware Estonia is a very small Baltic country I didn't over its population is more than about media 1000005. Not technically under the wave a charter is written we would be ready to go to war all verb. That that invasion of Estonia it is July read their right is that how the NATO charter as written. Well there's good defensive charter and can be aiding the agreement is that if one. Is it tactics and the others. Come to the rescue. Hello. And defensive she's old way and hope we keep our military defenses. Strong. And when we coordinate with each other. Did suffer medical shield. Bad. Of course what happens. When Obama and content. Cold and boom boom boom went along or not a mile long initiated considerable progress in recent idea was that. We get candidate. Missile defense plans. And the Czech Republic and Poland and these new home. Democracy it has stuck their neck out and supporting us sometime this year. But some hotel a world looking to ask for guidance for their new constitutions. Maurer. Left in the class and then plan and the administration and what goes to NATO meetings they would not have. Countries like Ukraine and a half at the same time because being up to Russia further we're all these behind the scenes. Messages that were being sent content there were good damaging to stick with great pride in knowing when you have emerging threat for non Serbs sent. With Russia it seems to me and I criticize this administration for this on this program a lot. When. Knew when the iron curtain fell in the Soviet Union fell by and Boris Yeltsin was elected the first president of Russia. They work Russia was almost an ally of ours and this is now you're talking 1997199619971998. Bill Clinton as precedent. When George W. Bush was president he also had a relatively amicable relationship. With no Vladimir Putin and again I would say that they may not necessarily had been an ally. But they seemed to be. Nothing more than I had an adversary. Our competitor. It seems to me that this administration has treated rush out. Almost the way. That the Nixon administration. Or they Johnson administration had treated the Soviet Union five or six decades ago. I can't reach out to ration and did the haven't found missile defenses. And the so lack of support for a crime he when. Russia at the green and made at that present Ukraine. And I can't thank. There was reason to continue dialogue with Russia to continue. Work the clock very cooperative relationship. With trash and Obama tries Kerry actually do that day very much continued dialogue I mean think about how that. To start nuclear treaty say not only. He got going again that offered concessions that the US really didn't need to offer to Russia. So they can do that and but they're one street century chapter Russia took over for the past but there was also reason to feel Russia. Russia has invaded Georgia. Russia said. Committed to what I would consider to be atrocities disappearance of this kind of thing. Then and in Tanzania. And have Vladimir Putin is an ex KGB guy who. Pat expressed longing for the former Soviet empire and was starting to me XP just about a fact so. When I select and Obama Clinton carried foreign policy I think. Today has played just too much emphasis until much hope. I'm Russia being a so called cooperative partner in the world and especially after. There is reason that can be leery and and now that this thing that I need. Find the most appalling. Is that we continue to sell out to Russia bend area. And every time we saw after Russia and go along with these so called Russian plans and so called peace conferences. First area we're selling out to assigned. We're incurring more hatred throughout the Middle East and down we are indirectly enabling one has. He noticed scroll up and up destructive dictators the world has ever seen so. It's. Well. How about Hillary Clinton. I'm Hillary Clinton as a willing partner with Obama's foreign policy that wanted to. Bring them to read the putt and why should play and the every soldier in that I have read partly because they were rejecting our foreign policy traditions and. Downgrading our defenses and parachute right can't send. But I have been to test for my ranking up perilous task was that deter me crazy that it's. Few people I'm talking many including. Some pundits and analysts so we're really plain pink. Thanks Kerry and attention. To the foreign policy deficits. Obama and the first term we're getting content in the past. And I saw her as a willing participant and. And this new way of conducting foreign policy. And not a cheap case should be held accountable and then when Kerry continued these trends planes but that didn't find it iPad or it could carry into the but so. Well I mean what is seemed mini series only a willing participant as secretary of stated seems to mean it she was part the architect. Those are most policies. Exactly it's exactly right. Your book is called a perilous path. And it is I am primarily year analysis all the claim to envy. Obama clan didn't cherry. Foreign policy. Senate armed historically grounded I'm take a leader and now I'm looking at world war killed. And looking at all the lessons we learned after that war about the finally get isolationism. And its negotiating from a position of weak nest. And I'll tell obsolescence we. Learned about the danger of propaganda that dangerous ideas and we did so beautifully. Compensated for those mistakes in World War II unsuccessful Cold War policy. Which combines strong defenses with the projection of ideals of human dignity you know Voice of America type program. Dean pacification program so the first chapter of my book deals entirely whipped yeah. Actually well were killed. And the Cold War and and I proceed and didn't all the different ways they changed farm policy in different regions. From China ten Iran to Russia nasseria Kara. Yeah yeah we had a guy there to have an amber on and wait long on time here right now up my dad to whether a foreign powers we deal with a lot that we really haven't mentioned. China number one. Taiwan being. Part of China and you know we basically sold so wide Taiwan out 35 years a golf. Hot and also North Korea North Korea are run by our own stark raving lunatic. The one good thing about about North Korea's military is any soul. Or insult in apt. That'd day it can hit any of its targets with its that would then said devices but boy keeps trying I think both those situations are a little scary. Very scary and especially. George curry and you bet I do you can tell I'm passionate about human rights and. Sometimes so I write things today and it in my writings I say it's not the North Korea has concentration camp says that North Korea is a concentration camp is high here. Country has been utter and total help for people living there. And they'd actually do keep it. Advancing their nuclear program there are just recent reports about a factor and I attended a house armed services committee meeting. We're generals were trying to get State Department people to explain why they have not put new missile defenses in Hawaii because. The reach of these. The polls that are pre acts as which could potentially. Carried. Nuclear weapons. Getting longer and need care of these generals and and that they can hit the western ID United States where the missile defense so I thought it was very technical. PSA kid this administration began Serb was. Well well something to say I'm paraphrasing but it was something to be attacked so well will do that when we need to. And then down. Movement congressmen and the general I think what do you mean when we need to commit to wait while we need tenth and your second big country didn't. You mentioned China. Yeah. And in dealing with China the United States has consistently downplayed human rights has emphasized economic relations an hour I'm down to power concerns. And stand and the point that I made in my pocket then. And I administration is he coming in the next. And two which didn't emphasize the economic side of relations and crushed human rights concerns aside and has been slow to respond to the. Strategic. Track. There's these aren't really on the move and I think you are volatile until late and he greens he's glad and are not part of the world. It seems to be almost an American tradition a succession of presidents and pretty much ignored. Human rights violations to would do business with China this says certainly isn't anything new and of course now there's the battle of the Philippines in the South China Sea. Or over whether boundary lines aren't all that and that I think. Fox threatens to escalade didn't and could also a lot involved potential military conflict. And and staying man here in agreement with everyone is looking seriously at this situation and because I get to the point as a foreign policy person may. Feel like I was there another depressing news. I have to guess that it. The world is not looking already read how hot. Well the odds are doctors are rampant kind of off Debbie is a way to lay I was supposed to break into wanna afterwards twenties until now but I really enjoyed talking to you and I even Dodd told. Not a guy with whom I said this in your job that this would be about fifteen or twenty minutes it's actually been forty minutes so I thank you very much for being windows. How much they really enjoy theatre you know I appreciate that. Now book is called a perilous past. You just heard dead doctor pairs examine it if you wanna know more about it her website is and within EA and and he are. PI. ER CE. Dot com doctor prayers I appreciate I appreciate being there was sand now we'll talk again thank you and and.