Time did talk pants and specialty vets. With the doctors from veterinary referral and emergency center in clarks summit. You can call in with your questions. 570883009. Means. Or 1804370098. And now the ads and specialty events on WYAOK. Good morning everybody and welcome to choose pets and specialty that time doctor pulled another one of the surgeons says veterinary referral and emergency center. For those of you who have not listened to the show before or just for some reason want a reminder for an entire from an emergency center is a 24/7. 365. Emergency and referral hospital located in south Abington Township. We have not only 24 hour emergency available for anyone that that should have an emergency. And needs to come in just walk in the doors and though we also have referral medicine which basically means that either. I you can seek us out or your veterinarian will send you to us but we have two surgeons to internal medicine specialist. Cardiologists to neurology. An MRI. And a full nuclear medicine ward as well. Our guest this morning is doctor bill chase doctor chase is a psychologist at issue is both a professor of psychology as a mosaic clinical psychologist. And done today's kind of topic of the show. It is to really discuss the human animal bond. And kind of the role that animals have taken over the years in our families because let's face it you know. Dogs used to live in a barn and then they moved onto the back porch then they moved into the bedroom and now they're sleeping under the covers with us. Probably. I mean I hate to admit it but my dog spins with us OK okay. But good morning doctor Jason Daria I'm I'm well thank you gave it to be here. I'm what do you tell everybody a little bit about yourself and then now we'll just you know start a conversation kind of dogs and cats and their roles with us and. Sounds great time Massey said Miami clinical psychologist I have a private practice in clarks summit I'm also pretty professor of psychology Keystone College. Pets ended up being one of those pieces that I'm not only factored into my education I was still a major us biology and psychology is an undergraduate. And that's one of the pieces that does show up actually quite often in my clinical work with regards individuals who. We'll deal with things like that grief. Sometimes it just having stress of that very family member and a house down. But silly things that they do less if it's amazing I had given them into the house that's been your heart is and you know hijinks ensue. Exactly. Dumb you know for many people I think one of the. Difficult discussions. And there's so many things that were going to be and I mean there's so much we can talk about this morning so we'll just kind of start with a few things sincerely don't just let. I think just I wanna trying to get ratings that mean invest and that is. You know as a veterinarian has a surgeon so I end up you know working with clients that have. Pets who have serious illness so where are either doing something on an emergency basis or a thicket it. Be potentially something elect is like let's say event. A dog comes into ceemea and it has a crucial attend so this is what we would turn out an elective procedure you don't have to do the surgery but here's the reason why we're gonna recommend it. An Odyssey of the time a client comes to mean they've already probably talk to their vet they have some. Background information they know what's going on there seeking out a consultation about surgery just as we would do with our own human doctors. So one of the things that I hear there's a couple things a lot of the things that I hear most frequently it is. You know my family thinks I'm nuts my family thinks so I'm not because I'm gonna spend 2000 dollars fixing a dog. Or what I hate the term that I hate hearing is you know this is a ten cent Alley cat I kind of mentality. And I it I have clients trying to justify Tim knee. That they're not crazy for wanting to take care of what they see as a family member. And then you know the other part of it is just. Am I crazy for just caring so much about an animal. And you know end of life. Conversations about I can't believe how upset I am my family thinks I'm crazy for loving their stock so much are grieving how can I grieve over a dog. And you know just to kind of start that conversation so people understand that. This is very normal. Absolutely and I think one of the the parts that it comes up a lot for people is that there is a shame factor they think that there's something to me. Casino because the Stanley says years. You're crazy for feeling the way you do and are you willing being willing to invest that kind of money into the health. Here at your head. Which. Pet sounds like a demeaning terms to some people it is a Stanley members many individuals. I've I've worked with individuals to their children will try to forbid them from spending any more money trying to take care of one of their their paths and the bottom line is is that the children have lives of their own and have children of their own. They're not thinking back to parents who may have no one else in the house with them by. That other that other living making them. It's not a bad investment as an investment in somebody that they care about. Who I mean really the crux of it is isn't an investment it's an emotional investment I mean that's worse than anything yeah exactly and so. You know whether somebody is placing at a numeric. On the emotion. And we're just. So ridiculous I mean how how do you really think he's like trying to quantify any amount of affection you have for various family members I'm sure some of us might do that I'm tired I spent a thousand on Unix. I feel I knew yeah. But it's its know how far would you go. When you loves someone had an interesting on how are not being financially necessarily vote. You know. The person who was. Is willing to drive back and forth to make sure that they get the dog to dog park and every day to make sure that they get a chance of socialized into gear on other dogs or the person news. It's out there in the freezing cold and he's bitter temperatures. Trying to make sure that doctor some some fresh air my mom. You know there's a lot of steps that we take because we care I'm more we do that for. You know our family members it's viewed as well that's expected. Let's for some reason we've now viewed as we do this for a pad it's abnormal. Well by some anyway yeah my thumb and it's a great point actually I'm glad that you said that because I hadn't thought about it for your SE right I mean we're. You know investing by doing all these things and why don't people say that taking your dog to the dark dog park every day is crazy. Right. Exactly and that's. An update on humans and pets obviously very different but you look at how much time we invest our children taking them to ballet practice or soccer game insist. Even the time knowing should be spent in the vehicle back and forth it's it's still you know time that we could have been doing other things but. We deem it important because it's emotionally important to us he's. Didn't talk about that a little bit like a lot you know it and I and I'm I'm gonna sort of trying clarify I mean I have friends who don't have children their dogs and their children and they do just as you say in the debt the dollar has scheduled you know they go to agility they go to a fly ball apps may go to doggy park camp saying. They take. Obedience lessons they're working on you know dogs get these degrees in obedience. I'm and so if you'll talk to somebody and not so I'm going after my TDX next on and it's like taking themselves and their dog to college so. I mean what is that what or what drives us as humans to do that and and I'm I know that there are people I shouldn't. Segregate them from saying all people without children dessert people with children that do all of this with the dogs as well. But what is it that we're getting from I mean why do we do that. I think that's when we look and again I know I have my with my own Diana tennis because this from Michael personal level as well you hear it from almost seeing all that. Anything that's new Carolina about how has that emotional words you. It's it's it's an investment of your fingers are talking about. It's an investment that safer in some ways and moving in that same. But containing and I spent some of the weird John vice. You don't necessarily know if it's going to work out you don't necessarily know if that person's trust worthy you don't necessarily know it's just really chemistry. When it comes to pass you know relatively quickly about that sense of I can be vulnerable and there's really not a lot of room that has a judgment. I don't have that no more than I would say you like to vote no you didn't just defense beyond the hole tanner price for a after taking the dogs like happy because human you left them makes the bottom of the container and they're always having been here. We're able to be completely vulnerable with pats were able to be open in a way that sometimes we can't be with other people and that's sometimes just comes down Clearwire time personalities. That's a sign and so really even with family members and in an ice and dating but you don't know whether or not I mean. You know it when we we equate this to animals being like her children and that's what we hear most often. Or you know. When you're younger you have a dog that goes hiking and camping and it's just your body can but it's so kind your kid you feel responsible for them something you know. That I can think of how many parents saying well my ten year old loves me now but just wait till they turn fourteen. You know growing toll turn eighteen call Floyd just you know are you talked a couple parents and their. Relaying he got a ten year old just wait two warriors are out of foul mouth and action all that kind of stuff. You know I mean certainly mean we get a sense that sometimes your dogs talk back to you but it's not like they are dismissing yours you say right judging you or. Well then the other thing weighs in again family members. It's part of human nature to become more and more independent overtime and sneaker on decisions. When it comes surf past there isn't this sense of growing independent spirit are dealing with you're going to deal with his consistent stream of dependence on the New York. The one who provides the food satisfaction. You're the one who provides the interaction. They can't trust necessarily I'm not others you're randomly do that. Children lost and detention camp partners of their own who will be offering affectionate they once had from their parents home. Our tests we are the sole source and because of that there's there's a type of bonding agents forged they're good. Is far different than any human human bond now again not equating them and saying they're identical but. They are very color and both in their own ways. Yeah and done. It you know that bond. I I completely agree and understand exactly what you're saying that bond on the side of human. It is incredible and can grow stronger and stronger. You know. I think that's and we'll certainly talk about after the first break but that's why when and then we lose these. Kids as we like to call them happens far too soon because humans are wired to have other humans in their lives for 4050607080. Years. And so we lose a dog sometimes five years eight years you know our. This you know you might meet the sixteen or eighteen or 21 year old dog night it's hard because you go through such an emotional investment to lose out so quickly and I think that's why the pain seems so. Intense counseling. But it's you know I mean that. That bond on a dog's side I can also say and I certainly have my I know we were talking before and that I certainly has some stories where. I don't care what anybody tells me I have seen in a clinical setting. Things from a dog that tell me how much sun dog mom is its family. And sometimes it can be a particular person but sometimes it can just get the family. So Shannon walks in the room and you see this incur animal change in a dog's. Demeanor and it starts to vocalize singing dancing in writing its tail and Kerry comes out and blood pressure comes up and mean all these not just what we might term emotional but also sort of these physiological. Changes so it's it's an incredible bond. And as as we were talking before the show I mean right now I think. Probably wouldn't take much searching online FaceBook YouTube just to find the videos of some of our soldiers returning home and the Dodgers haven't seen them. It's a reaction unlike anything other nineteen thank you send them vocalize and jumping. You can tell that this is something extraordinary yet there hearts and heads just exploding like guys. You're gonna like on the tube. Yeah that's great stuff. I'm wolf for everybody you're listening to present specialty that this is a call in radio show. I do call we're gonna take a short break right now but do you call with questions you can reach us at 570. 83 0098. Or 1804370098. Tucked in just a moment. You were listening to pets and specialty bats with the doctors from veterinary referral living emergencies centering clarks summit. On WYOK. Good morning everybody welcome to that's especially that's my name's doctor a cold enough I'm one of the surgeons and they're growing emergency center. So we are a full medical center located in south Abington Township where we have Tony for 7365. Emergency and referral. Which is basically special team and Madison last surgery internal medicine cardiology. Neurology. On nuclear medicine. And our guest today is doctor William chase he is a clinical psychologist as well as a professor of psychology. And we started the show and pretty much the entire topic of the show is just discussing their human animal bond. Can kind of roles that animals have in our family time society. You know how we have ended up moving dogs from the back of the field to the barn to the back porch to our beds. And the fact that so much now is viewed as these. You know dogs and cats in the and other pets. Being considered family members I mean you know animated licences show hers ever. Worked with some certainly I know I DR EC. Today I can I don't know on a single veterinarian. I always turn them our kids there is talk to two parents I never say you know your client this is your dog you only him I always talk about. While mom. Here's what's going on with your dog in this is what we need to do to fix them. Com and I think that sometimes. That takes people a back because they're not expecting for us to refer to them just straight away and that and that. Come. And sometimes I actually have clients who it shocks them because they're kind of like stop calling me and dad I'm not his daddy's not Ole man he's not he's a dog you know it. But that is far fewer I think in this Danny Ainge. On. And before the break we were talking a little bit about you and the intensity of our attachments. The recognition and the bond both from the human and the animal on why we treat those phones. You know one of the questions I asked doctor chase during the break is you know when it. Men and if you think there becomes a point at which. That bond is what we term pathologically it goes too far and become something strange or hurts the human more than and that helps them. We just have this kind of general framework can psychology. Sometimes you discover forty's so you would have. Do you Indians to stress dysfunction in danger and basically what panel breaks down to is. It's a behavior is so unusual. So out of the ordinary event that qualifies for being obedient nature. If we see distract us from the person is experiencing great T you know emotional struggle as a result of things. There just are becoming very tearful and becoming overwhelmed by their emotional state they're they're troubled. You know it's it's having. Palpable impact upon them. I'm the dysfunction as we start to see that and boil over into the way that they go about their lives. Individuals can leave home because they're too concerned that there don's going to be too lonely for example a quarter. There there's two concerns to I'm go on vacation because. You know I Jimmy my cats I have taken with me and I were good people or that was an issue they couldn't. There is hosting is having a family members say oh we're having a Eleanor watched an incident they need to be with me. Work you know their job is on the line because they're not going because I have to be home I had deeds mean. The danger parties win any types of these behaviors I suggest the points some sort of human risk. Or let's say and again that attachment. It's a situation where loves its pet priest and a person has lost this loved one of letters. Obviously if there's any type of suicide talent you know comes up harming themselves at all. We've just now like kind of gone down that list of those four potential T is that you start looking for those those in the red flags when they go off. You have to be careful. And I I asked discretionary know the answer but just so everybody out there that's listening can hear. You know this come from you a psychologist both a professor of and clinical. Do you see clients for pet grief I mean is that something that you have people approach you about it. Absolutely. Grief is such a multifaceted part of life it's just as soon as normal as feeling happy. When he's showing greater bring a smile and feel great when things. Go wrong Marines feel angry or sad. And we experienced loss and grief is going to be there and how Los can be over a job or her relationship over a loved one. And bump ones include both are human loved ones and our animals. Well I can tell you end and you know some people out there may be shocked to hear this but. My entire career from that school till now. I'm all along the way I have come across clients who have. Had such intense grief. And you know they they'll often mask. And you know why my feeling this guy what's going on I can't believe that this is happening I can't believe I never knew. It would impact me this strongly. You know and and certainly there are plans for for parents that IA have phone conversations with or just sit and talk to and I get a big hug to and support them. There's definitely a point at which there have been times where I had to stop and sort of say. You need to reach out to somebody you've got to talk to somebody. That's always the case with great. And since probably wanted to keep trying times and our lives and we really need to call upon our support systems we really need to know who we can come back content. I think the major challenge for individuals when it comes to paint creek in particular though is that they're often does that change factor that people. Question why inquiries are said it was just a Dodd was just cats. It was just a turtle you know it it doesn't have to necessarily. Be that standard but. Not everybody embraces the concept of factories people view it as an animal die and get another dog there's your solution to. Exactly. Fun and that's a great point when you said a turtle and I for a moment even in my own mind that went alone because you think about that dude is a must. Hierarchy of animals with somebody you know grieve over the death of a goldfish sure her. And we might sit there and sort of say oh come on into gold sash. But I promise you that there's just so many people that say can't think Don. You know so it doesn't really matter it's it's just that bond that you created now do my thing where that probably comes from his. You know a kid who has a trench let's not like this cuddly lovable it doesn't -- to doesn't you know may give you the same emotional. Fulfillment but if that child is upset about the loss of that tarantula. It's still their grief. And you think about it I mean you take it one step further you know. Distance between yourself and the ten things you mentioned the goldfish you know there's not going I'm sure there have been plenty of children every sin and try to cuddle with angles and put it helps but we told him back in the ball and I thought the in that situation how often do you see as a teachable moment when I goldfish dies I mean. You have one camp was like well let's progresses to the pass or get another one. And now we have like this you know immoral goldfish that has been around for nine years. But it's actually many companies and about twelve different cultures. Find him he was a teachable moments very can try to do some of those early as lessons about lost absolutely and a healthy lesson. And is obviously in those types of situations far easier lesson in the loss of human moment one. What is it time for you mentioned earlier we may have been dying for fifteen years. And I had clients who can catch for 23 years so when you see you know. The lotteries spend the more investment the more connection that has been forged. The shorter investment that in some respects and then more and underdeveloped sense of a connection between a small child and goldfish. There's a connection in the still grief. I'm in May not be as profound grief is even see with somebody who's had to catch her you know what and how much of their lives and yeah. But those are moments that we may learn about ourselves you know I'm deeper level and another emotional level and to deny an offensive than normal part our experience. Hard to try to be little that this. You know that does such an immense. Disservice to anybody experience. And we do have a caller we're gonna take the call only after the call I just wanna keep on the plane come talk about a little bit like how to people. Help themselves work with the family members who don't understand not because it's a great point. Come on the line is Bonnie and she's calling from background mentioned a question about her cat whose liver cancer and is having some trouble swallowing some pills. Bunny ear on with pets and specialty that's how are you. I learned feelings. I can't that we can't act this could affect David I had to get in the peel back again a man okay. And and I can't understand a little pill gun. And my biggest problem and I noticed and I couldn't get their family on my husband can't hold the app called the cat and cat. The advent of big problems I had trying to get eaten into this company and jogged around. So like against the chill in the and I think EE LA germanic tribes today they can in fact. And fellow I'm with a fade from the and I have to do I have to get a cure infecting in the morning I had to make any escalated now or before making me. And conflict that began malbec for my each country and if so when it and I need help how to get this appeal. Into the iPad and iPad and boot. Can you finish no I didn't my bad I can eat out in. OK any thing not like this cannot get out of detected during a camping out like another try Dodd can put appeal and good god gulping dragged down is there anything that you can help inflate. To get this talent and they can't. Yes so first off I wanted to save money found what you're struggling Wednesday in his. Nobody wants to have to give medications to cats because cats your posse right and you're a student nest. I am they figure out real question they don't do them a couple days and then made maybe come very resistance there can't. They're Smart riding dogs aren't but cast sort of those to studious are you kidding me not putting something in my mouth about it. He comes. And so it just acknowledge that this is a challenge. 11 thing I would probably suggest is you could talk to your veterinarian about potentially getting this calm pounded. Now Dennis Marron is a medication that. Basically is kind of what we might term a liver protect and and so. It's. Medication that either we can. Ask another pharmacy to trying compound trusting you could get in a liquid form so our came around we could have some conversations about now and I'm assuming right now the -- Aaron you have it's in a capsule form as our current if it. So little brown pill and I I guess different factual and I happen at fair and I think. And taking care of the colored cat food like brownish. I think it's like a bright blue asked. Groove and boom a little tiny amount can now and and if it looks like it and chain cut and it occurred until they couldn't. Even kill the at that if Gillibrand and I can I did in. And the temperament is bright bright blue tallying just going in now and he looked each round and then app and it's. Yet not to mention I think that they probably can just Mallon and tasted in the I would definitely yes certainly the best tasting must medications aren't always the best tasting. The other trouble is and you know as you had said you're wanting to give up on an empty stomachs and makes it kind of tough to. And so still pockets as you were referring to those are primarily made for dogs and a pretty big. You can try something like that. Sometimes and I know it's just be given time to sign but it's important that the medications just given so if you have to you know. Tennis and your soul of our worst or something stinky on it to see if that helps. Up and the last comment is and I know this may seem. A little bit kind of late but I talk to your vet or you know if need be Euro is welcome to reach out to us but just how so many show you. How to best do this because there's actually some tricks that we have where you can drop a pill into the back of a Castro and Pope it's done. Kill guns don't make this any better because now the cat sees you coming at them with this big stick and they know you're in a stuffed in his mouth and I so it. You know an argument ensues and the last thing you wanna do start wrestling with the cat it doesn't become pleasant for him or for you and you know and I can be pretty traumatic emotional for everybody involved. Some guy yes. And and did the commercial did something he felt like I had been did get a knife print and now after I got the chilly and I have met. Deborah dealing with Chad mid did become kind of laughed about it now but at the time that would show a little traumatic and yeah I'd ten go to and those are very helpful trying to I'm attracted to go and see if we can get it in a different form. Or. Probably highlighted in the end and something palatable that he could. Egypt without knowing about it. And then the last thing is you know ask them to actually spend a few minutes with you showing you by this sounds fun plane had just say I need to know how to telecast because there's actually some really good tricks. I mean you know we're not magicians we've just see the learn some techniques over the years about how to do it and you can actually get a pill to just drop straight into a cat's mouth I know it sounds like a magic trick but it's not. And that may just save you in your husband a lot of heartache as well as your Cape Town. Well thank you very very much I appreciate your help thanks for the calls. Yeah well I don't think I'd I'd. Centigrade the great question. You know there's a disease in cats. Where they become hyper thyroid. Time and there's a medication that we. I have for many decades treated cats who are high for fire US masters see that held twice today. Mantra CNET held twice a day for the rest of their lives. And we actually now have a treatment that's called I won 31 matches this iodine treatment and it is a single dose treatment that has given me an injection. And it only takes out the abnormal siren to Shannon basically cures the cat and whenever I talk to a client who's been you know telling you this cat twice today for. However many years and I sort of mentioned some hay has your veteran told you that you can get this thing called I want thirty want to singletary may never have to tone again. I actually always feel like I've been brutal because I'm telling your client never have to pool account again they look at me like him. Always so many tell me this sooner. But I'm here for Bonnie I feel bad for her I know how tough southern does not an easy thing to do so. When you match and emotional investment peace now earlier that I did you know twice a day having to administer medication 200 paths are obvious thing. Jim many of us and see what it's like trying to get him. I have served yeah. I would run through our investors into the to this day thank my wife will chase me down a sure that's been known purple stuff Charlotte area conference my job and it's not Conant. Can you know well and cats I mean all animals doing the cats especially they developer versions of medications almost immediately and it's really tough. Everyone you're listening to pets and specialty that's we're gonna get ready to take a break here but do you remember you can call in with any questions or special guest today is doctor William chase a clinical psychologist and professor of psychology we've been discussing the pet animal. Human animal bond. And the number here to reach us with questions is 883 is. 0098. Won't be back after just a sharp break. Basically his pants and specialty vets with the doctors from veterinary referral and emergency center in clarks summit. I'm ought to double BYAOK. Welcome back to pets and specialty that's doctor a cold and I'm gonna surgeons that senator Furlan emergency center located in south Abington Township. Play for 7365. Emergency and a referral hospital. And our show is basically just a call in show if you have questions about veterinary medicine. I'm a C specialized veterinary medicine and our special guest today is doctor William chase he is a clinical psychologist and professor of psychology. And even talking about the human animal bond. I'm talking about you know pet Greece. You know bringing up the fact that some people feel ashamed that they are so in love went for so emotionally. He connected with animals and certainly in the sham that sometimes is conveyed to them by other people whether it be family or friends. Shame that they spend money on an animal shame that they have emotional connection with an animal. And we are talking about. You know when somebody has that pet grief. And you know do they common seek your services when they called how'd they do that but also specifically just before the break I was sort of saying hold on to that thought which was. You know how does dump somebody deal wish those family members or those naysayers those people better than actually making them feel bad. Which is worse because in an almost time like you're trying to go through grief and somebody's trying to make you feel bad on top of love. It's tough so what what can you recommend or what do you say to people. I think it's it's tennis. Funny in a sense because. You don't we talk about links this. Cookie cutter dream that people have for the future of the house with a picket fence posts are always has the dog in the yard to. You always hear that I'd say it's it's that much of a part of like there's been dreams that we all have him for the future of what it would be for the good life would be like. End to have people come in you'll be talking about the idea that night. Okay well mine my son is just angry and I'm so upset about you know having lost of this patent. It is it really is a challenge because a lot of times you're not gonna change that other person's mind. You know it's the hard part is making its and you can accept your own feelings and not. And not so much time I have to convince them know what I'm doing is valid what you're feeling is out. Can do that anybody else to back that up this year if you feel that Hassan mosque belongs to use you own that and nobody's taking that away from him. You know for better or for worse. Nobody can understand it you know we can have you know us you can have. To Bailey members who both love had. Ben grieve is going to be unique to each individual. And to expect a person who is not as investors to understand. It's no different than having a good friend after you know you lose our relationship saying oh you just need to move on. Well obviously if it was that easy you would have just move. Yeah absolutely. You know and I can say for myself and I talked to many Clancy this has happened far. Every dog that you have in your life is different some. More intensely mostly connected to you some last doesn't mean you love them somehow more or less but that's just an emotional connection can be different. Dialogue says when I was starting vet school. And I lost her when she was only five years old. And that's not the part that affect me if I'm handed bud is for whatever reason the stock was just that dogs to me she was just fat dog. And then on top of back to lose her so young and I will tell you it took me about another five years now air was busy with my career. So you know I wasn't gonna do that's an animal but also it just took at a national space for me to get to a place right to say now I can have another dog because he knows I couldn't replace her. And I hear about all the time. The opposite of the coin is that I meet people who lose a dog and it is such an emotional impact. And literally they show up for the hostile two days later with a brand puppy and say enemy I wanted to show you an introduce you to. In the new puppy. And that's again Monday we talked earlier than an opinion personality differences and some personalities. Will need to have more prolonged grief and need time to process and blended satellite them. And there are others who. I don't wanna say that it's actual treatment for the grief because I'm not sure that it is Vancouver we'll go out and FF puppy today. I don't think the pain goes away I think when it is OK so you've just done a very solid distraction that over time. You know wilt you know and convert over you'll be dealing with degrees in the background. You'll be unnecessary pain as much attention. There's still money missing then you know that lost loved one but at the same time. You now have something that's really going to be calling your focus for awhile until. That transition starts take place more kind of behind the curtain instead and now confront. Some and I actually and I apologize if you if he did answer the sign just kind of missed it is there something that you can say to somebody. You know like let's say it's a mom who loses a dog and heard Tony I herald sun keeps coming and saying mom or not to thanks Roch do. And other than just saying. I know internally and says you know your emotions around it's okay is there anything that you say to somebody just to help. Some didn't deal with another family member Ernst. Hey it's it's a tough situation because a candidate said that inside. You're not usually and change a person's mind the sometimes it's matter put your foot down saying it's just something filing this is my game. I'm not asking for your permission to get setup fast. And being willing to stand up for yourself in the assertive about the way you feel I'm not. You know emotional bullying doesn't you don't have to be just on a playground sometimes it's a matter of being told what you're supposed to feel. And simply being able to just say this this is what I'm saddened and to me that allows final and if it's something where I can't talk to you about it. Vince Young save that you don't want to hear anymore. So be it but that's again as we talk a little earlier that's when you punish we have with the support system plays where. You know there are going to people around you who understand and if it isn't something where. Stanley are friends. Fast when he can talk to professionals. That's when. Yeah I mean you know. And the other part is if that family member feels as though. I'm not that they're trying to judge your crease but they feel like your grief is taking it somewhere shouldn't go to mad you know that's a different story that's when you're talking about the pathology. And that's what hopefully somebody reaches out and says listen let's just get. You know some help because you've got ready and when you and I wanna be very clear with everybody out there because they're they're always. And some like I've got to tell you this there's always this negative connotation with you know going out and seeking assistance. There are gonna see a shrink courier and I and you know I there's nothing bad about it's talking about having somebody assist you. To kind of ride through those emotional waves together so you know and people say look I feel like I'm dying I feel like I'm drowning. Well. There's no I'm not connect him. Discount that that's exactly how you feel and I always say declines I know right now you feel like you're drowning and I know you feel like you're dying I can only say to you I know you're not. But it doesn't mean that you're not feeling that way and that and you're not go ahead. Appreciate me sang best at some point you're gonna get true best. But it's between you know where you are now and where you're going to be in two years how you get through that and that's when you know people can reach out and ask for some assistance. Don't see says they're really careful with as well as the third really isn't a difference between grief and depression and it is an uncommon. Transition to see you know grief that has been prolongs to become depression. I'm a lot of times those individuals who come in thinking they have depression when it is in fact grief. Vice Versa. There are some key features that really kind of separated two. You know and you've crossed the threshold in the crash and if you're starting to experience feelings of more so Smith's profound guilt. Some things and we talked earlier suicidal Hans just until really bad about yourself you feel powerless and helpless. I'm not sleeping losing a lot of ways. Not having any pleasure in any other activities. I'm just constantly tired having intense very difficult time getting out of bed and those are some of the more like high end vs. I'm just like now Hungary I cannot say things on grades come on crying a line. I just have all the time like. There really is like O line between it you know you can understand that you're supposed to feel sad and it's close to crying and you may not be hungry when you're feeling now winning. And it's okay and it's okay it's now you start feeling worthless and he's there's SARS in the coming powerlessness heels never gonna change. That's when you know you really want to consider contacting somebody and you know it. Again I just and I it's it's not you're crazy get to talk to somebody and say you're human. Ten and there's no timeline is there or is there like savior let's say you've never been depressed in your life and a happy person on the planet by your dog passes away. And year end intense grief and it pushes you into some depression can't can you say grief only happens for so many weeks or months and then if it. Continues it becomes depression or is that not really have our X we don't really. Have a clear cut line comment really has to do with what's going on in terms of the persons took an answer reactions to it so. You can of individuals who can be in just prolonged grief. For a year and not really actually be depression. There really is you know it just hit some balls hallmark elements of and we know we Priceline is. There's things you enjoyed it outside of the LA. Being upset from the loss and that enjoyment some things have to weigh. You know your favorite food doesn't taste as good anymore you don't laugh at the funny movie he's the last fast. You know you're here hobbies have all fallen by the wayside like those are more you know concerning signs but again. I can show. Two weeks down the rose two months on the road a year and a half down the road when he gets crosses the line but. Again grief is so unique and individual and come. This is pets and specialty that's everybody that you're listening to do a call that you can call him with any questions you might have its 5708830098. More talk on doctor bill chase Tugnutt human animal bond. I'm. You know it's interesting people don't even realize. When we talk about like medical directives. We talk about wills how many people have their animals in their medical directives in their wills. You know my husband teases me all the time he's like look if you ever die I can't freeze to feed the dog cells. Yeah our animals are all in Wellesley contacted people and said if we should pass away you know. This dog goes do you and I thought goes to you and are you OK with saddened. You know there's people let's just don't even think in that regard but these are all you know part of our lives and important family members as we've been saying south. You know that's something that even as a veterinary and I talked to clans on time and say and he ever considered doing that you can do it. Campbell will refer them to their attorneys and say go talk to summoning get the stuff because that's often will make you feel better knowing that. If something should happen those those family members are taking care of. Well and again we understand the emotional investment has not always contained and you know in a single life span you know sometimes we view it as though that we. You know we've invested so much that's when we're gone we wanna make sure that to bed sharing is disease continued as I understand that. No other family ownership limits on that had family members it's going to be around. Strain and it's funny because we do not always talk in the negative we're talking you know pet grief and family members are giving your hard time. But there's also family members that are out there that sort of say you know put him on that we know that if fussy. There's something should happen to you guys I'm gonna take fluffy and I ain't you know unsupported minutes. Now just part of what we're doing in this kind of thing. That's the other thing to use your answers to situations burns you have that sense the felony counts that they had. Thank you there's even argument solar I'm going off to college I'm taking and you know we have taken bruiser with me I just how it's gonna work Graham. And there's there's Stanley conflicts to combat that nine Bono he's staying here is the Stanley notably when you bought it for me your members ranked. And I often actually hear the opposite which is the key business for college in the oncologist on the comeback to get their pattern Don in the parents say sorry. We we've fallen in love with some you left them behind these are some. So it's kind of interesting stuff and what about and let's talk just a little bit we've got an out for five minutes left here but. You know obviously I think we're all aware of this is the my. Benefits so we talk about and I think most people are aware. You know there's so much research out there that shows. Finish your ill you suffer from high blood pressure are you. I have depression or. You have a terminal illness now and I just wanna serve put out there there's a caveat to that because some terminal illnesses if they are immune mediated. Sometimes that will stop you from having animals or you can only have animals around and a certain manner just says there's no sort of transmission of potential. You know bacteria are diseases but. And we know that. We can have some incredible positive facts. Don't you know emotionally. And mentally talk a little bit and I mean do you ever say to clients usually go get a dog you should go get a cat or have you ever considered about. It's it's certainly better recommendation and I mean apart meeting comes out of the fact that some. That my alma mater. Most university cameras research that was done I want my professors and I examined the effects. Certain amino proteins. Just by simply petting my dog you see the increase in these immune proteins very rapidly. And most people don't realize that the great deal of your immune system exists in your digestive tract and so. You know if you're getting at instantaneous benefit. Just simply I'm cutting my di gets me beat Joseph relaxed. It's hard to even imagine what's happening on deeper level and throughout the whole body because it. We're just getting some of an extra you know proteins are now you know materializing in saliva. You can imagine what happens the rest of your vitamin does that feel even just sensation the endorphins and everything that affect closeness generates. Yeah absolutely. I mean there's a lot of research I'm sure we'll never managed to do because it's it's not gonna benefit somebody financially or and so forth doctor Jason are both rolling our eyes are now. I'm but you know we and you look at the. Outpouring of dogs that visit. Hospitals. In their guitars are becoming that much more commonplace there all the time absolutely yeah. And who. Who wouldn't want I I can tell you I'd wanna visit from a dog if I were you feeling ill. I'm not see the benefit is even on my own animals and there's plus reports of animals visiting you know. Somebody who's terminally Elin knows that they're gonna pass away just so that they can say deprive those kinds of things happen. I'm desperate no discount and and how we're dealing with animals and that household and our lives. This show always goes by awaits you fast that this is a great topic and certainly we love daddy back at some point if you would like to do and the future but this is. Been wonderful I. My question. I think just letting people know that it's okay to love and doesn't you know really matter but these animals and it becomes so important to us. Well we'll see you back in or talk to back in two weeks everybody thanks for being. Calling in with your questions and listening to present specialty events and we will talk to you very soon.