It's time to talk pants and specialty vets. With the doctors from veterinary referral and emergency center in clarks summit. You can call in with your questions. 5708830098. Or 18043700982. And now the ads and specialty events on double BYAOK. Good morning everyone and welcome to present specialty that's my name's doctor Nicole's another. I'm one of the surgeons. So veterinary referral and emergency center. And for those of you who have not listen to the show before or need reminder our little plug is a veterinary referral on emergency centers located in south Abington Township. And we are 24/7 365. Emergency and referral hospital and my referral we mean by that. Is that we have surgery so we have to surgeons internal medicine specialty to. Internists. We have a neurologist and MRI. Cardiology and a full nuclear medicine service. I hope everybody had a wonderful Christmas and done and holocaust. And is preparing or at least his best prepared as we can be for new year 2015. You mixed. And I am here our guest this morning once again is this I think this is your third show third show unilateral doctor nick Leonard from memorial that an area hospital and troop. Is with us. Well I did our plan going and give your replied let everybody know we are infants. So you know again this is my third time here but I'm sure there's a lot of you just tuning in I don't working in the area for votes six years now. Right now we're at so memorial veterinary hospital troop that's a hundred done more street troop we actually a three locations one and old for version one and Dixon city but I need. How primary principal veterinarian at the troop location. We've been check out our website at memorial veterinary hospital dot com. And actually I have a FaceBook it's doctor Nicholas Leonard. At FaceBook so. Some great to have her body. Yeah. So for those of you listening this is a call in show and then pet specialty that's a BI OK but the phone number here is 570. 8830098. Or you can call toll free 1804370098. And the last thing history techies out there you can actually text to 99404. Or text the word talk and then the question that you may have afterwards. And we can answer those are questions that you may have a feel for it Cullen he two weeks ago we do this radio show every two weeks of two weeks ago we had doctors Ferguson. From our internal medicine service and doctor Correia from our surgeries terrorist. On and they talked about a long list a different topics but the one of the things that I wanted to kind of mentioned from the us. Top or bottom of the show depending on how you see it. I'm was that they discussed an ailment that we CN dogs called GDV which stands for gastric delectation all the less that's why we college GDP. And it's basically what it means is that the dog's stomach. Unfortunately manages to rotate on itself. And it is definitely a emergence. Mortal emergency. And so one of the things that they had talked about was the types of patients that presents and what they've seen in the past. Don this week of alone Vieri C has actually seen three patients with GDP. And so I just wanted to kind of connect fat from the last two weeks or two weeks ago that show that was discussed. And because one of the listeners and I was one of them I had called Dan and I passed which patients. You know what were the kind of predisposing factors that lead a dog into. This are aware of the risk factors and so doctor curry oh so a steely kind of went to the list but some of the things to mention arts it is more common in males and females. Is typically more common in large breed dogs although we do certainly see it in small kids as well. Some we don't understand the complete path of physiology underlying message but we do know that it typically will present for dogs who are deep chested. So when you sort of take deep chested and large breed dogs great Danes. Oodles. Grey hounds. He sometimes Mastiff saying things like the bird breeds of that nature. And then unfortunately also dogs that tend to be somewhat nervous have kind of a nervous disposition there seems to be a higher propensity. Dogs now you can kind of equate this with this nervousness dogs that goal there shoot. So whether that's just that they're nervous super bowl of food in front of them and they sort of smooth I gotta eat really quick. Com. We know that there seems to be some relationship between potentially eating that food very quickly and then exercising. For us so whether that's because they needn't feel they have a big. Heavy stomachs they're out running around and getting anxious and excited and that's a possible connection. In the final and most important connection is that there's definitely a genetic come compositions so. If a dog has a primary relative mom dad brother sister who has had GDD. The likelihood of that patient getting GDP is much much higher so. I'll give you an example. I just yesterday we had a dog that came and she was a female. Very young and let me also mentioned generally will see this probably five years of age and older but it can happen younger dogs. But when we see this and females are younger guns and there's always sort of a suspicion why is this happening you're not a boy. And you may not seem very nervous and you're not five or older so is it possible that you ate something inappropriate maybe there's unfortunately something like a tumor where it shouldn't be and it's causing some problems. And sure enough the dog yesterday a female four years old. When we got two surgeries she did have TV and Allenby holed in her stomach was. I'm not only a tremendous amount of food which is pretty typical but under all that food was a large volume and these very large pieces of Andre just to draw hide. And doctor Nicki. Leonard and I were talking before we start of the show about you know the funny things that dogs eat and how they eat them and raw hide. And certainly I'll let you talk about this too for Dan petition is phenomenal. But unfortunately. I know I have a dog that if I don't give him a big enough piece of raw hide and go watch him close enough within five minutes the things covered in his. His blood because and I hate to say about because he's like you know his gums get torn apart because he's just crazy about them. It's one of those things where. There are some other underlying reasons like Mel injections and eighty things are not supposed to blocks or stomach and then they end up with the GDP. Let's talk maybe that's just kind of brings that into raw hide stuff from. -- guys had any issues have recently seen cases with formed by his it is the season it's Christmas and I always talk about it a lot that. Absolutely I mean raw hides knock on wood we haven't had any problems and a wily in you go through those periods where you see. Things and the like you said he has 3-D TVs back to back yeah comes into some trees so. That we haven't seen bit. I I like raw hides in a very particular way. You know we have to recommend in my big into dentistry is on my favorite things to do. I'm so they are very very appropriate and good for cleaning teeth but you have to pick the right size like he said you have to pick the big ones for your dog. My parents Suggs only 35 pounds we get the giant good raw hides. Because some things Airways laughs yeah she barely even fit it between your Posner faced. But you know as important to take those who weigh in a timely fashion you know you don't want them chewing on a huge piece Iraq high for Tony our streaming devouring it. I Asia recommend 2030 minutes at a time taken away in the treat tell your doing something good. And with the draft needn't give it back Tino next they're the day after. They certainly don't wanna let them injustice you know that the nodded and sending chunks because you know we have seen plenty of guess strike this is you know it's bad luck that before change UK's had a genie deal with it then don't we certainly see a lot of both. Over consumption problems with that. Now we also had to add the patient and doctor curry actually had this patient it's unfortunately a dog that I had removed a stone from his intestines when he was just six months of age. Now he's nine months and lo and behold we came back and then he had a foreign body and it was dean. The end of an island bone. And so this is one of their you know and I'll bones for all of those that are listening or even Kong toys that common different sort of almost strength I'd like to save a different kind of materials so some Khamese often to be some can be much more hard. And sometimes they're actually rated for the dog you're about to give it to say can actually see on the package it will saying. Please don't give this to a Rottweiler. For a pit bull because they're gonna come get into pieces and potentially swallow it for exactly that reason. What I don't know unknowns or other materials for a dog's teeth but like what about beyond the sort of hot thing now is antlers. Great time it hit that again it's is it. Very dog dependent issue in Maine and I don't wanna make the blink and Steven then nine the bones or bad Tom but in note in the reverse side when it comes and industry. I honestly would say up to 75% of the broken teeth the fractures in the open root canals and hope exposures. I'm where we need to do a full extraction or else this thugs gonna be a lot of pain. I'm about 75% of those broken teeth are due to an island bones. Antlers. You know and then you start getting down the list. Rocks sticks things like that that are inappropriate but as it is a commercial chew toy. I honestly I usually do not recommend denial bones on the harder side you know so. There's so many other appropriate chew toys out there that's one thing that I I have a personal. Issue with Tina because and I see so many dental 'cause you associate the amateurs can yes. But obviously if it's like karate or something that's got a crushing force has absolutely no obscene you're gonna say do something old Ana firmer so I have firmer side I mean you mentioned conflicts currently say a killer great and then those two come in different strengths if you read the blue the black. Black tending to be young really super strong industrial rubber. Unless you have that. Biggest pitfall Rottweiler out there with some you know incredible bite strength. You're almost never assumed she was through that oh you mean we have a long gap and a certainly I've seen them in overtime you get to replace those every couple monster here too. Yes SAI don't think out Darren and listening land that we haven't seen those thin pieces and in an appropriate locations unfortunately. We've got a call and it's John's calling from falls and he's asking how low can he prevent his dog from actually eating things. Hi John you're on the air. Yeah. Yeah. I think John put us on hold well at noon John that was a great question. And thank you for that little musical interlude. And I'll kinda getting in my taken then you'll see a doctor Leonard master says well. So in extreme extreme cases sanity is kind of backers on the from extreme to not so naughty maybe if you wanna think about how lacing source we're and that kind of Christmas week but. In the really extreme cases. There's two things to consider in my mind one is environments and the other's behavior. And sometimes those two blurred together but on the behavior side of things there are some dogs. That you know I will have some real serious its own conversations with. Parents and say look you've got to work with somebody to talk about how we can Alter or modify the behavior. So that your dog is not trying to take him these abnormal objects to can be. Stones or gravel from the driveway it could be molds from in a flower beds which. Anything that they're taking and you have to consider not only could be obstructive but it can also be very toxic depending on the material. So sometimes we talk about. Those behaviors. And believe it or not do some of those behaviors and really serious patients I've actually even said to. Sit and then there's I'm sure you know parents out there that are listening that say yup you did say this to make. That they're dogs might actually have to Wear basket muscle. Now some people will just be aghast at that thought but you know a very comfortable well suited basket muzzle. It is just that it's a big airy basket. If it keeps them from ingesting abnormal things and keeps you from spending thousands of dollars in surgery which is bad enough but the thing that hurts anymore. You know I've had patients that after the third foreign body I've had to sit downturns and say look I can't keep doing this the amount of scar tissue that we're. We're encountering this is unfair to your dog this. So it gets it gets rough. An environmentally sometimes you know I've had people who have had to completely change. You know they've come in after the second time and said that's at the gravel driveway is gone. I'm having a black top next month you know by the time that they spent the money maybe for surgery they could've done not for the drive I mean that's again I hate to sort of present monetary I have put. I'm so those are the extreme cases are not in the mild cases I think just on that same. Idea. It's modifying behavior and may be modifying the environment. If you have kids in the house and your dog keep keep seat eating an apple tops off of milk bottles he can't blame them it's covered him no good taste good. But those things obstruct their intestines and then so you can get those away from the dog he's just gonna keep doing. How about from what you know I mean that's this sort of like surgeries side of things. We see but. And absolutely I mean do we do it the occasional surgery it is not in their life threatening situation and and you hit on the two major things that we see are. Repeat stoning gestures and CD. Item from the actors. We had a dog and I think he's probably on his third pacifier. And one of which was probably inside him for about four months ago voice on the parents knew he ate it but. Didn't really know he ate it and four months later. You know and actually obstruct didn't cause the problems so. Four bodies are our tricky because he you know even in that scenario sometimes it doesn't immediately become apparent in a C you can have. Something that's you know days weeks months later. But no fallout of the sonic. Then fully obstructing intestines and and their DR EC who you ask somewhere so. Leo we have we had Huskies. There there is a family to Huskies said. They were just constantly eating travelman backyard. Both of which usually had to have faster models if they went outside. I come home environment top environmental things are really important blocking garbage cans some. Putting garbage dig in a closet or under the sink in things like Danielle really. I'm making is as clean and an environment almost think he would be eighty proof how exactly. And that's that's a big undertaking her some pets that. Are are very content area intelligent and they know how to get around things. Yep we'll put that up again just a moment we're gonna take a short break. You're listening to pets and specialty but that's generally act in just a moment. You were listening to pants and specialty vets. With the doctors from veterinary referral and emergency centering clarks summit. On WYE a gay. Hi everybody you're listening to present specialty that's this is doctor and a cold and know them from veterinary referral and emergency search center. I was gonna say surgery because I'm one of the surgeons there and our guest today once again be wonderful doctor and a cluttered from memorial veterinary hospital end Tripp. And we were just talking before this first break. About some foreign materials we certainly GD. Kind of left over from two weeks ago the show two weeks ago and that led a sense of talking about foreign material and we had a caller asked about how he could keep his dog from. Eating those foreign objects. And obviously doctor I'm Leonard and I have been talking about and just before the break we had mentioned the sort of ways that we might be able to. Stop patients from doing that and doctrine Leonard had made the comment that he had a patient who. In ninety eaten something even a month before and the parents and realize that it had been kind of unfortunately rattling around the dog's stomach. You know a couple comments that we had over the break and I just wanna share with all listeners as. That's actually not that uncommon and you may think how is it possible. A dog eat something so long before. You know they're amazing I mean they eat things and literally not object will. As I determine rattle around in their stomachs and the unfortunate what will happen is. That objects probably too big to come back up so they won't vomit it. And it stays in her stomach and eventually at some point one given day if another summit wakes up and says I think today's the day and I try and get us through this. And that's usually about the time that you come to see one of us because your dogs not doing well. So we just had a patient this country to patients from the same person. Come to governments who came in and they started vomiting up some kennel pod. And mom said they ate out over a month ago so it kind of you know and immediately she got rid of those kennel pads. But unfortunately the damage you've sort of been done on an arms to her she one of them needed surgery so you know it's one of those types of things. And we had talked a little bit about behavior do you other than may be making recommendations for like a Baskin muzzle do you talk to parents about how don't. Now things that they can do inside their household. Absolutely and I'm I'm a big advocate over telling personal stories. I know we just share them every weed out bad and I'm here but. I looked old cat and I use him as. Big reference in my practice where. Tom I basically had two dogs proof house before my cat because he's very. Dog like yes dog like he keeps things says no cat really should. The things I could be a rubber banding covered so. You know getting the BB blocks uncovered some he is very good getting into my bread box so I have to keep my bread box. Covered with something. You know so he can lift the lid. There's there's so many things were you have to critically. Look through my room scene where you know they can get into mischief you know we eat food or nonfood objects. My cat pickles actually had to remove a foreign body from him two years ago he'd piece of foam pounds of foam hound sewn. I have to keep anything that's even remotely phony flip flops and things like that to sit iphones I think tooth marks in themselves. I'm things like Peggy you'd part of it is knowing your own path there when he pets that will never even attempt to you know eat something like that. Found that there are claiming that there will eat anything in sight so it's not knowing your animal you know knowing your household. Ten and modifying as necessary. I'm sure everybody listening misses a call in show please don't hesitate to give us cause you've got a question the number here's 570. 8830098. Or you can dial 1800. 4370098. The one of the things I was also thinking about is. You know went unattended if I mean let's face says. My dogs are angels they're currently wonderful my husband calls are one dog his little princess and it's sort of paints this you know perfect picture of our. Animal family think about the moment we close that door and drive away. I think we have a household of little monsters I mean they have. The creativity. With which they destroy things in our house sometimes is amazing incredible. And yeah they are throwing temper tantrums we've left the house we haven't taken the pack with us. They get things. My husband and I marvel it's like that was on the top shelf on the back in the count how in the world. You know we've often wondered. The cats in Imus is this like a secret sleeper cell of you know some kind of a terrorist organization what's going on in our house. So that's also a discussion of you know we have taken to. Baby gauging. Dogs into our kitchen it's towels florid safety. And certainly some things in the kitchen but we're pretty good about. Making sure everything's out of their reach. But what about stuff like you know kennels. Putting them into a cattle. How do not see as a referral emergency senator we have a different kind of take on. That everyday household. Kind of bedding area I guess or husbandry but what about on your side as a general practitioner how do you talk to parents about how what do you say to them or is that something you discussed. Absolutely. I I actually rate from the start for puppy training house training in things that that I I feel they crate training is really. Excellent tool to keep them happy give them that day and he never really won easily create as a punishment zone you always want to have. Flu like should treat in the air you know give them a Kong toy with some peanut butter or he has some other very you know happy I don't that they can be arrest and there. I'm glad that we do have a lot of people that I recommended stare out of the house for fifteen minutes you know and anything long and never even. Give some people that if you're preoccupied for an hour you're cooking in doing laundry. I recommend you know the dog can go in the creek you know gives in this happy zone. I'm you don't wanna think he did as a prison you know because. Dogs at heart are din creatures. They like their free time out you don't wanna Creighton 24 hours a day. But in news you know 568 our first C know where you media worker overnight. If you have a dog that is really prone to ingesting things and getting into trouble. I think you creed is a very. Could tool any connection to eat better and more psychologically friendly to their dog. As long as they're properly introduce desecrate. Yeah I mean how many. Patients are kids can you think of at least I know I can Wear. In a household decree just sits there with the door open and you'll see the dog Bradley running yen. Happily going in their laying down its you know it is as you've turned in its third day and it's they're fed Germans Irsay who doesn't want their own little space and so. You know I mean even without crates dogs will pick a spot the becomes theirs. I'm so to give a night create the becomes their spot it's their domain free. I'm so you know there's a lot of people who think that crates are cruel somehow but certainly not I think if done appropriately. Fassel in and there are some excellent resources we use a website all the time called veterinary partners dot com. I welcome anybody out there to go check it out. You can almost taken anything and it's it's kind of the safe from Google I think for veterinary medicine. Cool and a lot of what they see no vehicle I'm sure you get this every day course. It it can scare you more than it's worth and there's a lot of missing information out there and sometimes even disinformation where it's. It's falsifying things for the wrong reasons. I feel veterinary partners. A really nice resource and great training is explains. In really great detail on there. Yet as to how to introduce either a puppy to the creek you know very fresh mind. But they also had information on the introducing adults two crates are. Anxious dogs that may be really scared at first you know you have to do very slow transition but in the long grin and often pays off and dividends. Well and you know this is some I always love these organic conversations that we have because I you know. Everybody I don't know if it sounds like we've rehearsed this a plan is that this is just this is off the cuff we're just talking with everybody today. But you know even this discussion about paneling. The idea of Sy is. How big of a kennel Dini and believe it or not most people it's just what we do right you want a bigger house on a bigger car so we was I think the biggest kennel but that's not always the most. Wise choice. And it's also do we want open sided mashed do we want a close hard case. So there's discussions about me we have to sort of consider can the dogs see through the walls of the kennel can. You know they want something that's kind of can obscure that visions are and so forth so there's a lot to go through and then the last thing is you know if if you're out there and you're really struggling. There's actually no need to go through that and I I will say we all feel your pain. And this is not just about you know behavioral issues with the eating things inappropriately but we. Yeah as I was sort of joking but it's true if your dogs are throwing temper tantrums and destroying a house some good. You can always reach out contact your veterinarian. Contact us called you know doctor Leonard's office. But there are lots a resource resource is available for behavior. Helps so either actually referring you to a behaviorist which is a veterinarian who is specialty training in behavior. Yes we have Donnie psychologists out there. Or somebody who just does behavior work and we have some really talented people in northeast Pennsylvania. I'm people that we use injury sources all the time. Like anything else I think many people just sort of figure that's a dog it's got to be unique. And this kind of sort of deal with this myself and I just don't need to suffer through it from. Any topics that you wanna kind of what's what's on your your heart your sleeve your mind I did. Wanna mention going back to the GTV thing only because it's a really interesting fact. I see a lot of exotic say no if you yeah yeah yeah. Believe it or not and Guinea pigs are really prone to GDP. Both in the sense that say you know theory meetings are wrong nutrition and they kind of go off their food is there really prone to them loading condition. In the gas just by itself a twisted. But unfortunately they feel like heating things like carpets and the whole mix with their hair fall issues then. Some of them won't get although it's a little overrated but we do see a number of GDB cases every year with Guinea pig patients now with skinny pace. Because I'm an attire and I'm no clue so unlike dogs. Is it something that you medically managed. The final hour so in in many cases so we tried medical management. I'm glad it's it's honestly usually about 25% effective. Mom at that point surgery. Is is usually so critical. They may not make it's so we we often have that discussion where. We tried the medicine you know we give it you know up to 24 hours and you know sometimes you have to make some tough decisions there. And Ann are you doing stays in Guinea pigs. Space not often we do neuter them we will speed them though we pick it's it's honestly better conversation to have and make sure that people know. I'm not to breed them unless they are of a certain age if you do not read a Guinea pig by eighth two to four months of age. Tom they will have breeding problems at any age Passat. And that's why if you really take notice if you go to almost any pet store out there. Tom every pet store typically sells one sex Guinea pig only guessing never want. Mixing by accident camp and the reason I was asking a question is because in dogs we will often do a preventative measure called gastric taxi where we tackle the stomach to now. Body want a dog so at the time spay or neuter. In a dog that is at risk we will do that procedure or not doesn't stop Madonna from bloating but it stops the stomach from twisting and it's that twisting that is. So terribly dangerous not suggesting although it's not an emergency but it's not. Anywhere near as deadly as a twist would be to does asking that his curiosity is a few speed Guinea pig could you packs in their stomach it's a bit extreme I suppose for Guinea pig but. If it's nowhere near. As risky as you would see in certain breeds you know I think because doing. Castor Hexion in Guinea pig is like doing gastric pasty on every dog chair you know so you you never know where that risk factors really gonna commit to play because it's almost always. Inappropriate foreign body ingestion child to have good bedding. You know. That the adjustable bedding good food and they're not free roaming into enough things they're essentially okay yeah. Well I'm anywhere gonna take a break you're listening to pets and specialty that's please over the break just get ready call us with your questions and number here's 570883009. May not be back in just a moment. Basically his pants and specialty vets like with the doctors from veterinary referral and emergency center in clarks summit. I'm ought to double BYAOK. Welcome back everybody you're listening to pets and specialty events I'm doctrine called another one of the surgeons theory seems. An eerie scene is age 24/7 365. Emergency in referral hospital in south Abington Township. Where we have obviously emergency but we also have referral services and by that we mean internal medicine surgery ain't neurology cardiology. A full nuclear medicine service. And we are looking in south Abington Township you can reach us by eight and visiting our website it's DR ECPA. Dot com. We have a FaceBook and Twitter account and simply Vieri CP aimed. And you can always reach the house through a telephone I know that's an old fashioned system but it's tight it's seven. 7777. And our guest today is doctor Nikola Leonard he is one of our wonderful referring general practitioners from memorial veterinary hospital and that's actually even dismissive just a great friend and hostile great personal friend. I'm a doctor Leonard is. One of our region's. Great that's because not only does he deal with a great deal of exotic certainly sets when I was passions but also does a lot of dentistry work. And although most listeners might sort of thank you so what's the big deal about dentistry and exotics it's actually in my mind wandered for two of those sort of more. A new usual. Things for practitioners to want to work quest. And so to have both of those interests and one person. Everybody sees your guy. And so an and then of course we always kind of giggle about the fun things of dentistry in exotics which makes it even more precise perhaps the so just to remind everybody where is your hospital located. So we're we're in true Pennsylvania. It's 100 done more street there's actually has two other locations. Did not manage I mean both so one Arnold's fortune one in Dickson city and the principle that troop. You can find us on memorial veterinary hospital dot com there's a lot of information on the air and so we see ahead especially in my hospital because thing. Such a unique guy. We see everything from dogs cats feathered. Scaled creature raised a little bit and Indians but there's social facet specialized usually have to send those elsewhere. When you do have to do well. And I honestly I think I know the answer this because we do the same thing though when you personally have to send someone with a specialized exotic somewhere or an exotic that has. Something that you sort of feel okay this needs to go see someone else. Who is that someone else and where you send them honestly want the best places. Both in terms of facilities. Price and just scenery is Cornell. I feel that's. Almost every place and we would refer to him has I really excellent and sonics department come on staff. Found is within about an hour and a half to three hour drive to there's really not a lot in this direct area so. Cornell is is almost always my first coach to put on their some excellent veterinarians down in rights medical center this town near Bethlehem. So we send a number of exotic issues down to creature comforts Allentown area that do they have actual exotic specialists there yes they had to have one an opinion you know down in Philadelphia there are certain pan. Again new as well as trying to practices CNN com both. That's it although I'm a pen we grand. It's it's difficult strife. You know for a lot of people sure we're not great. And not to mention and I you know most people who you would hope most people who have an exotic. Kid will do that research beforehand but you know obviously there are just like in human medicine launches a different topic although we sort of chatted about the before we get started this morning. And there are specialist and Johnson do exotic animals and so usually we will have those at university centers not not all veterinary colleges. Has age. Exotics department believe it or not. And so many general practitioners are not trained whatsoever. Or very very minimally in exotics current. So not only are we lucky to have you here in the area and some of that because Penn does have an exotics department but then also. Locally hour and a half drive we have an hour and a half yeah Cornell which has a pretty well nationally known exotics service and that's always good. We had a caller that called and they wanted to take the question offline. And the caller basically says. I've got a Golden Retriever that keeps fighting herself we've tried shampoo and many things like should I do so all you start with a different tone than. Well I always have the same thing had probably see it 2310 today the only thing harder than behavior for mean his skin sometimes. Skin issues are so vast. And speed but they all look almost the same you know so. I guess we can take this is kind of a two part thing I mean he can he can have agreed related issue called to retrieve Ers we often see. Are a little more prone to skin that allergies and things they found. Tom and then there's so many environmental factors. You know the easiest things to start with the horror looking at flea prevention and they're still parasites found. If there are fleas and I'm happy because. Check your gold as the only 23 months on the line we can fix. But if it's speed if it's that you know lesions underneath the armpits and belly defeats in the years. Tom and those are often related to different types of allergies. And allergies I can talk for an hour by themselves on. But you know briefly you have to consider food allergies. Now which are very common especially depending on the feature to pad. Environmental allergies are are even more. Complex and it's just like people you can have springtime fall time year round allergies with flare ups in the middle why it's it's very. Frustrating. You know to even start the process. Down and I'm sure you may see plenty of skin issues appear way but I know there's. A surgeon you probably have the luxury sometimes saying. He had to and if we're playing offense is an issue where I'm getting involved it's probably not gonna just be something. Allergy really breaks my face that's yeah allergies say I'd say our. At the top of my list in a Golden Retriever count but the identification of bad allergy. He's. Is a long process known. I'm so I will I'll amend dark out here just a little bit now for everybody I'm a surgeon I am not a dermatologist but I will. You know medicine as well as everything in life it's just a bunch of facts that we can accumulate right so. The things that I will say to the caller about itching Golden Retriever is yes typically allergies so food or topical. Food allergies and everybody out there listening food allergies and and dogs are incredibly common. Unfortunately. There's this discussion about novel proteins. And so. If I dogs immune system let's say he has seen chicken and develops an allergy to chicken anything with chicken is gonna set off an allergy. The problem in veterinary medicine has become. That was once upon a time you know when dinosaurs I joke look at them from about the spelling dinosaurs roamed the earth and I was in that's gone. You know the most novel protein we came up with Liz Claman rice and people suck on my comfy dog lamb that's crazy. Main downside is that an all these companies say hey look. You know and Jane and John love defeated dog land so I wanna feed my dog land so. Companies say will put Lamine stuff and don't get us to sell more food. The problem is that all these dogs he lamb they're immune system see lamb now we can't use lamb. So I know you know especially are internist to kind of end up dealing US and I'm sure you do I mean general practitioner Seymour skin issues and probably anything else. We have literally in the veterinary medicine and and specialty diets have had to start to use really exotic proteins to try and treat allergic patient so. Believe or not there's diets out there with crocodile an alligator and kangaroo brew and I mean the most crazy to ostrich. Because we're trying to keep it out of the hands of him just every day. Kind of manufacturers. So that's the food issue. And so. It certainly talk to your vet what we end up doing is something that's called a food trial. We have to clear the dogs off of all foods all. You know you're gonna and basically cook. A homemade diet of only some very specific things for about thirty days to clear their immune system out and then things get introduced. And ultimately if you need to you can always get referred to see a dermatologist yes once again we have specialist in scanned for dogs. That the next topic is topical allergies and as doctor Leonard talked about you know could be only in the springtime when birch trees or are blooming. I could be in the winter when everybody moves indoors and they get sensitized to your carpet cleaner I mean there's so many things I could be going on. But there's nothing more frustrating than a dog that's been itchy for two years you you wanna pull your hair out as the parent as much as your dog is scratching her outs from. I'm. One other comment for everybody is pleased now under dogs humans manifesto allergies. In our lungs so we get we easy and coffee and so audience. But dogs manifest allergies and their skin and so. You know a coughing dog or runny nose dog that's not an allergy when they're itching and running up against your Charron. You know frustrating Iranian household that's an allergy. And so certainly they can go see them. A dermatologist if need be but. 99.9 percent of general practitioners. As doctor Leonard they're kind of the first line of experts for itchy skin but there's. I know it's frustrating for YouTube. I venture to say that to fit in this is an average day we'll see three to four paths every day with some degree of analogy. And yes some of these dogs and just have ear infections. You know I could she say 80% of the dogs that have recurring ear infections. Have some degree of allergy yes if it's one year and it's flares up you know once every two or three years. That's unlikely to be initiative but you know we see these dogs that. 34 times a year is are getting you know tightest symbols tears. That's that's a really common sign. Food allergy I'll even tell you mines. Kind of experience with these food trials found any more work force almost did it. Basically only use certain. Prescription only diets you know those hydra lace proteins. Com doctor denoble was mentioning these novel proteins that are just really obscure proteins. You know ostrich came to brew we actually use very commonly. Sound but there's also a second site called Hydro lies where. You actually take common proteins like solely or she can something that's readily available. Any use enzymes that would normally be found in our own stomachs. To pre digests that list so you cut those chicken gets up into little tiny fragments so. When you re fi debt to the dog or cat. They're immune system doesn't see chicken anymore are they just see amino acids and little protein segments. These diets are very effective. But they they come with a cost him that extra. Digestion process scene of some of these bags of food or seventy to ninety dollars a bag yes. I I honestly do tell people. If we do that for two to three months and we get a good response. Ninety dollars a month is a lot cheaper then all of the medications. And that anguish of those allergies. But it is and upfront cost you know and there's still no guarantees we had. One of her older employees had a Golden Retriever hall thugs. It was excellent on one of these type Phillies protein diets she was 100%. Allergy free she never did that before. But they had some children in the house she was a bold lead they you know we wouldn't go one out free O trip champion one piece it shaken any seeing our borders you know table scraps that she found underneath the at the table. She would have a flair for seven to ten days out and that was one indiscretions yeah so if you had dogs that. You know earlier in the show we're talking about him getting into things that also has analogy. Do you compete you know running in circles trying to catch up with this skin disease. Yeah that it is without a question tough I mean. Some we probably don't see. Nearly the number in fact I know we don't we don't senior in a number of skin issues that you do because you're really near the front line there. But certain lane. It's not unheard of that a 3 AM it she'd hear somebody's finally woken up the last time and so that's it we're not a hospital. You know as a surge and years and years and years ago I used to do a tremendous number of surgeries for a dog's ears when they became so chronic and closed. We really don't do those procedures as much anymore because as full medical body you know veterinary medicine has become so much more astute about. Underlying issues for dogs. And it and I am happy for not I don't wanna have to do surgery I shouldn't need to do it for managing these that are medically and with diets and so and so forth but yeah that's some. For all those people listening out there if you're young. If you have kids or teenagers and they're talking they're becoming veterinarians. Tell him to grow up and become a dermatologist. They will never and the only be busy they'll probably be extremely wealthy. Ha. I just joke about that because. Dermatology is one of those specialist for veterinarians. There's very few residency programs training them so there's very few produced. I I mean I'm guessing I know I'd have to do your research that there might be five in the entire state of Pennsylvania. If that yeah. And this is a big state so it goes to China you know we're lucky enough to have a great window personnel yes. He's. He he actually taught me a couple of years and it can get them into. We we still send some of those terrible cases say yeah just cannot manage you know really tune in we're lucky to at least have an an Allentown some. Well we've got just about two more minutes before we say good bye for the segment anything you wanna kind of leave for the listeners doctor iron. We still have one more holiday coming up. New Year's. You know nature here at hand min chicken and all your bunker seafood is safely stowed away for them we do you see a lot of guess right is cases a string some arrests that was so sad to hear Alonso is coming holly holiday dinner stand. When you're taking any Christmas trees watch that tinsel on the garlands and all that's. You know we've we've got to keep this holiday season pretty healthy it's been healthy so far so yeah keep going I agree. Our next show for everybody is going to be January 10. We will be here for 2015. Are very happy to be doing this radio show on you know obviously for all the listeners we hear a lot of feedback so we. What 2014 was great and her looking for to a wonderful 2015. And thank you again for being our guest I think you will all probably hear from doctor Leonard a few more times in the next year which is great. There is listening to present special team that's under the while Kate and have a wonderful wonderful new year.